Look forward to reading more from you and knowing the good spots for when I am back in the ‘Jing.

I also thought of the Paul Midler-James Fallows issue, but probably in the opposite way that you did. I don’t know the NYT author but, given that you note he’s been in China a long time, I’m a comparative newbie.

I’d never, nor did I, claim that the NYT itinerary has no credibility. As noted, I agree with NYT’s choice of Bed and Dadong.

Thanks for commenting: it’s nice to know someone reads this thing!

Cheers, Boyce

Points well taken. I think as all the various comments on the piece show, Beijing cannot possibly be reduced to a 36-hour itinerary.

I commented because this thread reminded me somewhat of the exchange on China Law Blog a week or so ago re Paul Midler’s comments on James Fallows’ blog. There are many of us that know a lot about China, but that does not necessarily mean that someone with whom we disagree has no credibility on the subject.

“… why suggest such a tacky destination as Lotus Lane?”

As I explained in my post, Lotus Lane is a transition point between visiting the Forbidden City and going to Bed Bar (and it avoids having to cab it to Dadong and back on a Friday, when traffic is terrible). The food is generally tasty and the restaurants are tourist friendly. It might be tacky, but so what? You spend an hour or two eating, stroll around Houhai, maybe check out Nanluoguxiang, and go to Bed Bar.

Re Chuan Ban, I’ve eaten there more than 25 times (I used to work nearby) and never had a problem. Re The Red Rose, it *is* loud, and while I may have a “been there, done that” attitude about the place, visitors to Beijing typically like it.

And that’s really the point, isn’t it? The nightlife itinerary is for *visitors* to Beijing, regardless of whether long-term expatriates find it boring, tawdry or formulaic.

I think you make the point here:

“… even though there are 75 places I’d rather eat at than Pure Lotus (it’s good but hey I’m a carnivore), stateside readers who don’t know the first thing about China would probably be interested in knowing about such a place.”

If stateside readers “don’t know the first thing about China,” then why not inform them about the Xinjiang and Sichuan food in Beijing, or about the 75 other places where you would rather eat, than force them to suffer through a showy write-up about a vegetarian restaurant?

Serve the reader…

Cheers, Boyce

PS Re Panjiayuan, sorry if I was unclear, but I wasn’t criticizing it as a stop on the 36-hour tour. By all means, Panjiayuan is an interesting place, even if it is, as you might put it, “a bit tacky.”

Apparently, the writer has been in China a long time (see Ben’s comment).

Cheers, Boyce

I agree that Beijing is great for Xinjiang and Sichuan food, though the noise at Red Rose gives me a headache and I had a terrible meal at the Chuan Ban; maybe that was just bad luck as I’ve mostly heard good things.

Cut the NYT some slack: they have to include places like Panjiayuan and even though there are 75 places I’d rather eat at than Pure Lotus (it’s good but hey I’m a carnivore), stateside readers who don’t know the first thing about China would probably be interested in knowing about such a place.

Full disclosure: I am a friend of the author; I don’t know what kind of editing chop-up was done on the piece, but I do know that he has been living in China a *long* time, so he would know where to go if given the opportunity.

would international publications please at least *consult* a local before printing up this kind of stuff? ugh ;p